LAMA THUBTEN YESHE - THE BIG VISION
Interview with Connie Miller on Universal Education at
Pomaia in 1982 (transcript from the video-tape. Abbreviations used: yk = "you know", yu = "you understand" UEP = Universal Education Project)
Connie Miller: Then perhaps we continue with questions on the
Universal Education project.
Lama Yeshe: You need anything, you're welcome.
CM: Thank you. When many people first heard about the UEP
and its purpose, they understood it to be for the purpose of formulating
educational goals and methods for youth in FPMT centers and to generate a
Mahayana-based education for center children and others. But since the
conference last October and in light of His Holiness's contribution, it now
seems that we can understand the purpose as being much broader than this. Can
you enlighten this, can you tell us the goals of the UEP and in what way it is
in fact universal?
LY: Mh. Well, first of all, I explain you first beginning
UEP - we need new education for the world, because all the education is no
longer up-to-date for the present intelligent people, yk. And present education
produces world conflict and dissatisfaction for the new generation. So I
believe this project is long time, I believe even 7-8 years start already,
looking for somebody to take over. Somehow is too late, nobody is act. Then
fortunately you accepted and told you that time, this is, the reason I call
universal, it means something universal people understood, entire human
reality.
Now, now many people in the world don't understand totality of human reality, they don't understand their totality. They don't want to accept spirituality, yk, and when they do accept spirituality, they don't accept scientific reality. This conflict I can see in the Western world. Commonly this, according this, the corresponds, I determinate, there must be way to go middle way, and people educate both spiritual and, yk, what I mean, and both scientific, these two. And human being have to be, sort of capable to take care of themselves physically and mentally, to liberate from any kind of problem of physical or mind.
Now, now many people in the world don't understand totality of human reality, they don't understand their totality. They don't want to accept spirituality, yk, and when they do accept spirituality, they don't accept scientific reality. This conflict I can see in the Western world. Commonly this, according this, the corresponds, I determinate, there must be way to go middle way, and people educate both spiritual and, yk, what I mean, and both scientific, these two. And human being have to be, sort of capable to take care of themselves physically and mentally, to liberate from any kind of problem of physical or mind.
And so, what I mean is
with education now, what you need is, I think, is, present stage, there are lot
of intelligence and wisdom but presentation is too narrow and too, sort of
dogmatic way present to student of the world. So they conflict each other.
Reflect whatever is, dualistic reflection, not only dualistic but conflict
reflect. I feel we should eliminate conflict situation by using words, by using
terminology, yu, yu? Let's say I tell you, eg. we can teach entire Lam.Rim and
something Tantra without using any terminology of Buddhist, I think, I can do.
You can do it too.
Yu, so it doesn't have category, yk, sort of category.
Instead of producing category self-pity imagination themselves, can have free,
free from the category distinction, mh, self-pity identification, yu? Eliminate
that situation, be free being, free universal living being, and completely
understand own psychology of oneself, one's own physics, or oneself, yu? That's
what I call Universal Education.
Then I told you, Buddhism, we have this quality,
Universal Education in Buddhism, we do have. But I want you change clothes, cut
these terminology, Buddhist words. Yk, don't using like nirvana, yu what I
mean, which is Sanskrit religious word, and use just simple scientific language
and which does not have any religious connotation, which does not have any,
kind of belongs such category. Just explaining neutrally, isn't it? Something.
Communicating?
CM: Very helpful.
LY: Because all concepts, I tell you, projection, because
human being already projecting such way, narrow connotation. Yk, label already.
This have to take out, to have new imagination, new broad view, by eliminating
concept-words and clothes. Not sure, understand or no?
CM: Yes, Lama.
LY: That's what universal meaning. So now, I'm telling
you, Universal Education doesn't means: "I'm Universal Education
organization, I cannot be Buddhist nun." Wrong. Really. You are Buddhist
nun, isn't it, by keeping Buddhist ethics. But you have universal
understanding, aiming these things, you can plan, otherwise nobody can do, nobody
can do. Then everybody says, "No, I can't do, you cannot do, because you
are not universal, you. English cannot do, American cannot do, because
Americans this way. Tibetans cannot do because Tibet is nowhere, Himalaya
world, Shangri-la, nobody knows what is happening in the world." So nobody
can do, isn't it? That is no question.
But we have clean-clear vision,
dimension, what we should be. Ok? Now, Universal Education student not
requirement to become nun, not requirement to become monk. Can happen monk, can
happen nun, can happen marriage, can have everybody, entire universal world is
universal, world, education student. Hm. Clear?
CM: I think so, Lama.
LY: So what we have is, I feel, Buddhism, we have
universal attitude and we have teachings to give universal reality. So these
need to take shape and language and some kind of universal image, have to take,
yu, and that is important. Then we can contribute. So this resource is our
student, they understand, realistic point of view. I tell you, dedication comes
from our student, you let them understanding.
That's why I told you, Universal Education is from
children up to death-time, and after death, next life, next life. How to be
educated? This has to be planned. Therefore I say, you have to start gradually,
same time you have great project. Exercise, you should be slowly, you cannot
only intellect. You should realistic start from somewhere, small way. Then I
telling you, if something for the children, deep understanding of human being
and same time, express somehow very simple language. And you produce A,B,C,D
books, some extent contribute, the resource by the ... our student, and they
listen.
I think, slowly, slowly, they can do. So then, they can see benefit is,
yk, I think this is quite a bit long distance, many generations sort of,
finished for us, children education. We don't need now, we are too old already.
But you have to think about new children, new baby, who not yet come out of
mother's womb. Yes. And so we are, we think about, really think about with
great concern. Don't think new children not come because nuclear disharmony,
destroy - not true. Don't worry, new children come.
CM: Thank you, Lama.
LY: You're welcome.
CM: Specifically
then, in the process of integrating the Dharma into Western education, then how
can we try to be sure not to lose the essence of the Dharma?
LY: That
you need good understanding, Dharma people, to work your education board.
Right. Agree. Definitely. That need incredible sort of skill. Again I tell you
one thing. When we say, when we make new education, that does not mean we give
up old education totally. We use old education, but we take out in this old
education the words which is, which makes dumb and closed, those things you
take out - putting new shape. Communicating or not? Yes, and add more flavor,
deeper understanding of human nature, yk. That's why Universal Education does
not mean we give up mathematics education which Western offer, give up those
things - no sense! That is not true. It has sense and value.
Same thing, other
Western education has value. But many need some kind of flavor, more totality,
more deeper nature. Each subject has totality, method and wisdom contained as
we described. Remember? We talk about Tantra, always two things to go, method
and wisdom, isn't it? Every energy has method and wisdom go together. So the
same thing you have to introduce into that situation scientifically, Ok? Ya.
Then what other thing, that question, you finished your question?
CM: I finished my question.
LY: All
right. You're satisfied with your question? All right.
CM: Thank you very much.
LY: You are welcome, dear.
(end of the interview with Connie Miller)
copyright Universal Education for Compassion and Wisdom
Lama Thubten Yeshe was born in Tibet in 1935. At the age of six, he entered Sera Monastic University in Tibet where he studied until 1959. As Lama Yeshe himself expressed it, "in that year the Chinese kindly told us that it was time to leave Tibet and meet the outside world."
Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa came together as teacher and disciple while in exile in India, and met their first Western students in 1965. Lama Yeshe immediately took a lively and profoundly intelligent interest in Western culture, and within ten years had begun to tour extensively and teach students in Australasia, Europe and North America. This network of students eventually became The Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition (FPMT). Lama Yeshe's vision for "a new kind of universal education" was launched at a conference in Italy in 1982 attended by leading spiritual leaders, psychologists and educators, including HH The Dalai Lama, now Patron of the Foundation for Developing Compassion and Wisdom. Following Lama Yeshe's early death in 1984, this vision is now being taken forward by his successor Lama Zopa, the Honorary President of the Foundation.For more see: www.lamayeshe.com
and more about Universal education: www.essential-education.org